Monday, October 6, 2008

Monday's MeditationMom Moment - Walking, Talking Humans - At Peace

This is a sequence of questions from the same person. To read the whole thread and other people's contributions to this discussion you can go to were most of the online MeditationMom conversations take place in the various religion forums.

Question:Are those who attain enlightenment always enlightened?
MeditationMom: Yes.

Q: I ask, as some recent meditation sittings I've done have brought on glimpses of something akin to nothingness.
MM: "Glimpses of something akin" is not yet "it" and it will take more trust and love on your part for that. A glimpse of the ocean differs greatly from jumping in. Also, there is still an "I" that had the glimpse. Who had the glimpse?

Q: But I always come back.
MM: Who comes back? From where to where?

Q: The 'edge of mind' feeling though remains, and sometimes I can almost fall back into that state/feeling/whatever with the simplest effort.
MM: This is very good that you can go there at will and it is good practice to keep going "back and forth". But, "the edge of the mind" is not yet having jumped off the cliff, so to speak. That's where you need more love and trust, still.

Q: The only thing that seems to be holding me down are things & family, even my own body.
MM: The only thing that is holding you back is not body, things or family but "I". Who would you be without your things, body and your family? More importantly, who would you be without thought - especially the root thought of all thought which is "I". Who or what would that be? That is who you are! The Nothingness you had a glimpse of - when fully known - you realize is who you are, rather than an experience that you have. This can be known fully before death, but for most at death is when they find out, again and again, life after life. If you find out before death, it is called enlightenment and it does require losing ones fear of death . So far you are experiencing your mind at profound rest which is great, and truly gives a glimpse. There is one more step in order to go beyond, and it is not a step we can take, but a step that is granted. Readiness is achieved by working on love and trust to its utmost. A family is a great training ground to practice love and trust. The readiness I mentioned is nothing but a complete willingness to give up the self.

Q: Makes me wonder if its only something that can be utterly attained at the end of life, when the final tether (body) starts to unwind.
MM: The body is not the tether. The "I" is the tether. Even when there are "almost enlightenment" experiences, it is still the "I" that had them and then loses them again. Hassidic Jews say: "You have to die before you die." This is no small thing.

Q: Do these enlightened folks walk around in this state all the time? I find that hard to bet on, tbh.
MM: They do not run around in the state you describe, because that is not enlightenment.

Q: Crazy, I know, but I'm interested in the philosophical aspects of this question. I've heard of people attaining enlightenment, just curious if they are still walking, talking humans.
MM: Walking, talking humans - with a twinkle in their eyes and a profound peace about them, living ordinary lives. The "great ones" like Buddha or Jesus were just living ordinary lives at the time, and have only become "great" in our minds over time.

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